Now that there is a few aftermarket ECU's out (Monster and the Q-jection) I have a few questions about them (I'm sure there are others who may have the same questions). Anyways I'm wondering what the whole advantage of running one of these are. From my understanding there is only one real world true advantage to them and that's if you are a racer and have a dead engine start. The aftermarket ones allow you to start the machine wide open. I also know that they can remove the top speed limiter, which to some may be cool, but I can't see the fun going that fast down a strait road faster then they go stock. I don't understand why you would want to remove the rev limiter. I know my rev limiter is at 8000 RPM, why would you want to rev higher then this??? Is there really a need to rev higher then this, as you are way beyond the peak in the power band and you are beginning to lose power at this point. I realize there is aftermarket parts that will raise your peak power band, but I don't know of anything that's out there that will raise it that much. Also with them being able to adjust the timing how much timing can they adjust. Is it just a few degrees each way or is it more? I can see advancing the timing a degree or two for more power, but I would be more then leery going any more then that. Especially since they do not have a knock sensor.
Rebel Renegade
Aftermarket ECU questions
I would like to raise the 65 mph limit on my xmr but IMHO I think the PC5 and a good 2 cylinder tune is the best buy for the money. Start changing to much and pushing them to hard ya just wear them out sooner. I like to try to balance my performance with reliability / longevity.
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after spending the day working with a tune monster, i can say that i love the raised rev limit and timing control. being able to put the bike in low gear and ride all day with mud tires on and be able to hit speeds around 60 mph when you want is nice. as for pulling past peak power, well play with the timing a little and it still pulls hard up through 9k, at least in low gear. i swear from 8k to 9k pulls HARD after playing with the timing. now this was on a stock renegade, snorkels, and HMF slip on. it's worth every penny, imho.
no knock sensor since the can-ams don't come with them. you have complete control to advance or retard the timing accordingly. i never pushed it to get any knocking since i didn't have that kind of time to tune it.
PC3s and piggybacks like it add fuel by lengthening the injector duration pulse sent by the stock ECU based on throttle position and whatever map loaded into it.
The stock ECU in addition to the TPS monitors engine RPM, water temp, intake temp/pressure, and wheel speed and controls pretty much everything on your quad (injector timing, spark timing, rev limiter, fan, headlights, etc). An aftermarket ECU allows you to take control of all that stuff and tune beyond the limits of a piggyback. In reality if you don't need to rev higher than the stock rev limiter or change the ignition timing you'll probably be happy with a piggyback unit for a lot less money.
The stock ECU in addition to the TPS monitors engine RPM, water temp, intake temp/pressure, and wheel speed and controls pretty much everything on your quad (injector timing, spark timing, rev limiter, fan, headlights, etc). An aftermarket ECU allows you to take control of all that stuff and tune beyond the limits of a piggyback. In reality if you don't need to rev higher than the stock rev limiter or change the ignition timing you'll probably be happy with a piggyback unit for a lot less money.
And an ecm can drop your running temps by 30*. Stock fan comes on at 208* coolant temp. Dropping 28* to cycle the fan at 180* makes a huge difference. On power, legs and longlivity.
You can never replace the throttle response and acceleration of proper tuning. A piggyback device actually trades throttle response as it retards injector timing. And as the stock ecm changes the base pulse width (for temp and altitude) the tuning from the piggyback remains constant. It always needs retuned. An ecm, is just like the stock one and compensates for everything.
As wake said, higher rev limit in low range gives a higher speed and a much more usable low range. Mudders, snow and tight forest trails make low a nice fun gear. Speed and rev limit in high is only for high speed riders. XMR bikes are speed limited at 65 mph. Guys hate it. Its great in the mud pits but sucks when a little honda passes you on the way there.
Most builds take peak power up near or over the rev limiter. So when properly clutched, you are out of revs on a stock ecm. (09+ cams (intake/filter)and a good exhaust make peak power near 7800 and only drop 2hp at 8500rpm before starting to drop. Canam even upped the limiter to 8250 so riders wouldn't bounce off an 8000 rpm limiter when properly clutching an uncorked bike. Alot of better engine builds will take peak power to 8500 or so. If you dont clutch and run there, you are loosing alot of money you spent.
And as mentioned, the 2009+ bikes can have the low end snap/accleration enjoyed by the older bikes. All year bikes can enjoy more snap. Or even have the option of detuning by a toggle switch when the wife, kids or real technical situation comes into play.
Timing is very dependant on what fuel the rider wants to use. Stock detuned timing is set for 87 octane use and the knowledge that guys will have old jerry cans around or a bike that sits all winter and the use the old gas come spring. And its not near even 87 octane anymore.
I run 2 timing tables by toggle switch. One for race gas and maximum power and at the flick of a switch i can pull up to the pump and put 87 octane in it.
Getting rid of the reverse override is a nice addition.
Some people like to tune up the cruising areas better than stock (and stock wot is too rich as well), just so they can enjoy a longer range on a tank of fuel.
Some people like to be able to monitor every sensor, live on a laptop. Either for diagnosis or just because they can.
By using an ecm and datalogging, you can watch your rpm, time and see complete runs and pinpoint your clutching to a tee. See exactly what is happening. overrev, belt slipping, shiftout change - everything on a graph
Auto tune like nothing out there. If any mods are done at all - the engine needs tuned. What else are you going to use? Download a fuel map? guess at it and push buttons? buy expensive equipment or go to a dyno (if there is one near). Use a pc5, hope it works and then do one cylinder at a time? (both cylinders effect tuning of the over. injectors are in the same intake)
Overall - complete control and get every ounce of power, performance or fuel milage from your machine. Stock to modded.
You can never replace the throttle response and acceleration of proper tuning. A piggyback device actually trades throttle response as it retards injector timing. And as the stock ecm changes the base pulse width (for temp and altitude) the tuning from the piggyback remains constant. It always needs retuned. An ecm, is just like the stock one and compensates for everything.
As wake said, higher rev limit in low range gives a higher speed and a much more usable low range. Mudders, snow and tight forest trails make low a nice fun gear. Speed and rev limit in high is only for high speed riders. XMR bikes are speed limited at 65 mph. Guys hate it. Its great in the mud pits but sucks when a little honda passes you on the way there.
Most builds take peak power up near or over the rev limiter. So when properly clutched, you are out of revs on a stock ecm. (09+ cams (intake/filter)and a good exhaust make peak power near 7800 and only drop 2hp at 8500rpm before starting to drop. Canam even upped the limiter to 8250 so riders wouldn't bounce off an 8000 rpm limiter when properly clutching an uncorked bike. Alot of better engine builds will take peak power to 8500 or so. If you dont clutch and run there, you are loosing alot of money you spent.
And as mentioned, the 2009+ bikes can have the low end snap/accleration enjoyed by the older bikes. All year bikes can enjoy more snap. Or even have the option of detuning by a toggle switch when the wife, kids or real technical situation comes into play.
Timing is very dependant on what fuel the rider wants to use. Stock detuned timing is set for 87 octane use and the knowledge that guys will have old jerry cans around or a bike that sits all winter and the use the old gas come spring. And its not near even 87 octane anymore.
I run 2 timing tables by toggle switch. One for race gas and maximum power and at the flick of a switch i can pull up to the pump and put 87 octane in it.
Getting rid of the reverse override is a nice addition.
Some people like to tune up the cruising areas better than stock (and stock wot is too rich as well), just so they can enjoy a longer range on a tank of fuel.
Some people like to be able to monitor every sensor, live on a laptop. Either for diagnosis or just because they can.
By using an ecm and datalogging, you can watch your rpm, time and see complete runs and pinpoint your clutching to a tee. See exactly what is happening. overrev, belt slipping, shiftout change - everything on a graph
Auto tune like nothing out there. If any mods are done at all - the engine needs tuned. What else are you going to use? Download a fuel map? guess at it and push buttons? buy expensive equipment or go to a dyno (if there is one near). Use a pc5, hope it works and then do one cylinder at a time? (both cylinders effect tuning of the over. injectors are in the same intake)
Overall - complete control and get every ounce of power, performance or fuel milage from your machine. Stock to modded.
[quote name='800vtwin' timestamp='1305082952' post='227967']
You can never replace the throttle response and acceleration of proper tuning. A piggyback device actually trades throttle response as it retards injector timing. And as the stock ecm changes the base pulse width (for temp and altitude) the tuning from the piggyback remains constant. It always needs retuned. An ecm, is just like the stock one and compensates for everything.
As wake said, higher rev limit in low range gives a higher speed and a much more usable low range. Mudders, snow and tight forest trails make low a nice fun gear. Speed and rev limit in high is only for high speed riders. XMR bikes are speed limited at 65 mph. Guys hate it. Its great in the mud pits but sucks when a little honda passes you on the way there.
And as mentioned, the 2009+ bikes can have the low end snap/accleration enjoyed by the older bikes. All year bikes can enjoy more snap. Or even have the option of detuning by a toggle switch when the wife, kids or real technical situation comes into play.
Getting rid of the reverse override is a nice addition.
By using an ecm and datalogging, you can watch your rpm, time and see complete runs and pinpoint your clutching to a tee. See exactly what is happening. overrev, belt slipping, shiftout change - everything on a grap
QUOTE >
These are the things i really like from a ecm. The main one is the last one. thats how you tune to get the clutch good. not mention the that you can load the eddy brake to way more load than your machine will ever see and thats so important in clutch tuning.
You can never replace the throttle response and acceleration of proper tuning. A piggyback device actually trades throttle response as it retards injector timing. And as the stock ecm changes the base pulse width (for temp and altitude) the tuning from the piggyback remains constant. It always needs retuned. An ecm, is just like the stock one and compensates for everything.
As wake said, higher rev limit in low range gives a higher speed and a much more usable low range. Mudders, snow and tight forest trails make low a nice fun gear. Speed and rev limit in high is only for high speed riders. XMR bikes are speed limited at 65 mph. Guys hate it. Its great in the mud pits but sucks when a little honda passes you on the way there.
And as mentioned, the 2009+ bikes can have the low end snap/accleration enjoyed by the older bikes. All year bikes can enjoy more snap. Or even have the option of detuning by a toggle switch when the wife, kids or real technical situation comes into play.
Getting rid of the reverse override is a nice addition.
By using an ecm and datalogging, you can watch your rpm, time and see complete runs and pinpoint your clutching to a tee. See exactly what is happening. overrev, belt slipping, shiftout change - everything on a grap
QUOTE >
These are the things i really like from a ecm. The main one is the last one. thats how you tune to get the clutch good. not mention the that you can load the eddy brake to way more load than your machine will ever see and thats so important in clutch tuning.
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